第17章

Andistherenotilliberalityandavariceinrobbingacorpse，andalsoadegreeofmeannessandwomanishnessinmakinganenemyofthedeadbodywhentherealenemyhasflownawayandleftonlyhisfightinggearbehindhim，——isnotthisratherlikeadogwhocannotgetathisassailant，quarrellingwiththestoneswhichstrikehiminstead？ Verylikeadog，hesaid。 Thenwemustabstainfromspoilingthedeadorhinderingtheirburial？ Yes，hereplied，wemostcertainlymust。 Neithershallweofferuparmsatthetemplesofthegods，leastofallthearmsofHellenes，ifwecaretomaintaingoodfeelingwithotherHellenes；and，indeed，wehavereasontofearthattheofferingofspoilstakenfromkinsmenmaybeapollutionunlesscommandedbythegodhimself？ Verytrue。 Again，astothedevastationofHellenicterritoryortheburningofhouses，whatistobethepractice？ MayIhavethepleasure，hesaid，ofhearingyouropinion？ Bothshouldbeforbidden，inmyjudgment；Iwouldtaketheannualproduceandnomore。ShallItellyouwhy？ Praydo。 Why，yousee，thereisadifferenceinthenames’discord’and’war，’andIimaginethatthereisalsoadifferenceintheirnatures； theoneisexpressiveofwhatisinternalanddomestic，theotherofwhatisexternalandforeign；andthefirstofthetwoistermeddiscord，andonlythesecond，war。 Thatisaveryproperdistinction，hereplied。 AndmayInotobservewithequalproprietythattheHellenicraceisallunitedtogetherbytiesofbloodandfriendship，andalienandstrangetothebarbarians？ Verygood，hesaid。 AndthereforewhenHellenesfightwithbarbariansandbarbarianswithHellenes，theywillbedescribedbyusasbeingatwarwhentheyfight，andbynatureenemies，andthiskindofantagonismshouldbecalledwar；butwhenHellenesfightwithoneanotherweshallsaythatHellasistheninastateofdisorderanddiscord，theybeingbynaturefriendsandsuchenmityistobecalleddiscord。 Iagree。 Considerthen，Isaid，whenthatwhichwehaveacknowledgedtobediscordoccurs，andacityisdivided，ifbothpartiesdestroythelandsandburnthehousesofoneanother，howwickeddoesthestrifeappear！Notrueloverofhiscountrywouldbringhimselftotearinpieceshisownnurseandmother：Theremightbereasonintheconquerordeprivingtheconqueredoftheirharvest，butstilltheywouldhavetheideaofpeaceintheirheartsandwouldnotmeantogoonfightingforever。 Yes，hesaid，thatisabettertemperthantheother。 Andwillnotthecity，whichyouarefounding，beanHelleniccity？ Itoughttobe，hereplied。 Thenwillnotthecitizensbegoodandcivilized？ Yes，verycivilized。 AndwilltheynotbeloversofHellas，andthinkofHellasastheirownland，andshareinthecommontemples？ Mostcertainly。 Andanydifferencewhicharisesamongthemwillberegardedbythemasdiscordonly——aquarrelamongfriends，whichisnottobecalledawar？ Certainlynot。 Thentheywillquarrelasthosewhointendsomedaytobereconciled？Certainly。 Theywillusefriendlycorrection，butwillnotenslaveordestroytheiropponents；theywillbecorrectors，notenemies？ Justso。 AndastheyareHellenesthemselvestheywillnotdevastateHellas，norwilltheyburnhouses，notevensupposethatthewholepopulationofacity——men，women，andchildren——areequallytheirenemies，fortheyknowthattheguiltofwarisalwaysconfinedtoafewpersonsandthatthemanyaretheirfriends。Andforallthesereasonstheywillbeunwillingtowastetheirlandsandrazetheirhouses；theirenmitytothemwillonlylastuntilthemanyinnocentsufferershavecompelledtheguiltyfewtogivesatisfaction？ Iagree，hesaid，thatourcitizensshouldthusdealwiththeirHellenicenemies；andwithbarbariansastheHellenesnowdealwithoneanother。 Thenletusenactthislawalsoforourguardians：—thattheyareneithertodevastatethelandsofHellenesnortoburntheirhouses。 Agreed；andwemayagreealsointhinkingthatthese，allourpreviousenactments，areverygood。 ButstillImustsay，Socrates，thatifyouareallowedtogooninthiswayyouwillentirelyforgettheotherquestionwhichatthecommencementofthisdiscussionyouthrustaside：——Issuchanorderofthingspossible，andhow，ifatall？ForIamquitereadytoacknowledgethattheplanwhichyoupropose，ifonlyfeasible，woulddoallsortsofgoodtotheState。Iwilladd，whatyouhaveomitted，thatyourcitizenswillbethebravestofwarriors，andwillneverleavetheirranks，fortheywillallknowoneanother，andeachwillcalltheotherfather，brother，son；andifyousupposethewomentojointheirarmies，whetherinthesamerankorintherear，eitherasaterrortotheenemy，orasauxiliariesincaseofneed，Iknowthattheywillthenbeabsolutelyinvincible；andtherearemanydomesticticadvantageswhichmightalsobementionedandwhichIalsofullyacknowledge：but，asIadmitalltheseadvantagesandasmanymoreasyouplease，ifonlythisStateofyoursweretocomeintoexistence，weneedsaynomoreaboutthem； assumingthentheexistenceoftheState，letusnowturntothequestionofpossibilityandwaysandmeans——therestmaybeleft。 IfIloiterforamoment，youinstantlymakearaiduponme，Isaid，andhavenomercy；Ihavehardlyescapedthefirstandsecondwaves，andyouseemnottobeawarethatyouarenowbringinguponmethethird，whichisthegreatestandheaviest。Whenyouhaveseenandheardthethirdwave，IthinkyoubemoreconsiderateandwillacknowledgethatsomefearandhesitationwasnaturalrespectingaproposalsoextraordinaryasthatwhichIhavenowtostateandinvestigate。 Themoreappealsofthissortwhichyoumake，hesaid，themoredeterminedarewethatyoushalltellushowsuchaStateispossible： speakoutandatonce。 Letmebeginbyremindingyouthatwefoundourwayhitherinthesearchafterjusticeandinjustice。 True，hereplied；butwhatofthat？ Iwasonlygoingtoaskwhether，ifwehavediscoveredthem，wearetorequirethatthejustmanshouldinnothingfailofabsolutejustice；ormaywebesatisfiedwithanapproximation，andtheattainmentinhimofahigherdegreeofjusticethanistobefoundinothermen？ Theapproximationwillbeenough。 Weareenquiringintothenatureofabsolutejusticeandintothecharacteroftheperfectlyjust，andintoinjusticeandtheperfectlyunjust，thatwemighthaveanideal。Weweretolookattheseinorderthatwemightjudgeofourownhappinessandunhappinessaccordingtothestandardwhichtheyexhibitedandthedegreeinwhichweresembledthem，butnotwithanyviewofshowingthattheycouldexistinfact。 True，hesaid。 Wouldapainterbeanytheworsebecause，afterhavingdelineatedwithconsummateartanidealofaperfectlybeautifulman，hewasunabletoshowthatanysuchmancouldeverhaveexisted？ Hewouldbenonetheworse。 Well，andwerewenotcreatinganidealofaperfectState？ Tobesure。 Andisourtheoryaworsetheorybecauseweareunabletoprovethepossibilityofacitybeingorderedinthemannerdescribed？ Surelynot，hereplied。 Thatisthetruth，Isaid。Butif，atyourrequest，Iamtotryandshowhowandunderwhatconditionsthepossibilityishighest，I mustaskyou，havingthisinview，torepeatyourformeradmissions。 Whatadmissions？ Iwanttoknowwhetheridealsareeverfullyrealisedinlanguage？ Doesnotthewordexpressmorethanthefact，andmustnottheactual，whateveramanmaythink，always，inthenatureofthings，fallshortofthetruth？Whatdoyousay？ Iagree。 ThenyoumustnotinsistonmyprovingthattheactualStatewillineveryrespectcoincidewiththeideal：ifweareonlyabletodiscoverhowacitymaybegovernednearlyasweproposed，youwilladmitthatwehavediscoveredthepossibilitywhichyoudemand；andwillbecontented。IamsurethatIshouldbecontented——willnotyou？ Yes，Iwill。 LetmenextendeavourtoshowwhatisthatfaultinStateswhichisthecauseoftheirpresentmaladministration，andwhatistheleastchangewhichwillenableaStatetopassintothetruerform；andletthechange，ifpossible，beofonethingonly，orifnot，oftwo；atanyrate，letthechangesbeasfewandslightaspossible。 Certainly，hereplied。 Ithink，Isaid，thattheremightbeareformoftheStateifonlyonechangeweremade，whichisnotaslightoreasythoughstillapossibleone。 Whatisit？hesaid。 Nowthen，Isaid，IgotomeetthatwhichIlikentothegreatestofthewaves；yetshallthewordbespoken，eventhoughthewavebreakanddrownmeinlaughteranddishonour；anddoyoumarkmywords。 Proceed。 Isaid：Untilphilosophersarekings，orthekingsandprincesofthisworldhavethespiritandpowerofphilosophy，andpoliticalgreatnessandwisdommeetinone，andthosecommonernatureswhopursueeithertotheexclusionoftheotherarecompelledtostandaside，citieswillneverhaverestfromtheirevils，——northehumanrace，asIbelieve，——andthenonlywillthisourStatehaveapossibilityoflifeandbeholdthelightofday。Suchwasthethought，mydearGlaucon，whichIwouldfainhaveutteredifithadnotseemedtooextravagant；fortobeconvincedthatinnootherStatecantherebehappinessprivateorpublicisindeedahardthing。 Socrates，whatdoyoumean？Iwouldhaveyouconsiderthatthewordwhichyouhaveutteredisoneatwhichnumerouspersons，andveryrespectablepersonstoo，inafigurepullingofftheircoatsallinamoment，andseizinganyweaponthatcomestohand，willrunatyoumightandmain，beforeyouknowwhereyouare，intendingtodoheavenknowswhat；andifyoudon’tprepareananswer，andputyourselfinmotion，youwillbepreparedbytheirfinewits，’andnomistake。 Yougotmeintothescrape，Isaid。 AndIwasquiteright；however，IwilldoallIcantogetyououtofit；butIcanonlygiveyougood—willandgoodadvice，and，perhaps，Imaybeabletofitanswerstoyourquestionsbetterthananother——thatisall。Andnow，havingsuchanauxiliary，youmustdoyourbesttoshowtheunbelieversthatyouareright。 Ioughttotry，Isaid，sinceyouoffermesuchinvaluableassistance。AndIthinkthat，ifthereistobeachanceofourescaping，wemustexplaintothemwhomwemeanwhenwesaythatphilosophersaretoruleintheState；thenweshallbeabletodefendourselves：TherewillbediscoveredtobesomenatureswhooughttostudyphilosophyandtobeleadersintheState；andotherswhoarenotborntobephilosophers，andaremeanttobefollowersratherthanleaders。 Thennowforadefinition，hesaid。 Followme，Isaid，andIhopethatImayinsomewayorotherbeabletogiveyouasatisfactoryexplanation。 Proceed。 Idaresaythatyouremember，andthereforeIneednotremindyou，thatalover，iflieisworthyofthename，oughttoshowhislove，nottosomeonepartofthatwhichheloves，buttothewhole。 Ireallydonotunderstand，andthereforebegofyoutoassistmymemory。 Anotherperson，Isaid，mightfairlyreplyasyoudo；butamanofpleasurelikeyourselfoughttoknowthatallwhoareintheflowerofyouthdosomehoworotherraiseapangoremotioninalover’sbreast，andarethoughtbyhimtobeworthyofhisaffectionateregards。Isnotthisawaywhichyouhavewiththefair：onehasasnubnose，andyoupraisehischarmingface；thehook—noseofanotherhas，yousay，aroyallook；whilehewhoisneithersnubnorhookedhasthegraceofregularity：thedarkvisageismanly，thefairarechildrenofthegods；andastothesweet’honeypale，’astheyarecalled，whatistheverynamebuttheinventionofaloverwhotalksindiminutives，andisnotadversetopalenessifappearingonthecheekofyouth？Inaword，thereisnoexcusewhichyouwillnotmake，andnothingwhichyouwillnotsay，inordernottoloseasingleflowerthatbloomsinthespring—timeofyouth。 Ifyoumakemeanauthorityinmattersoflove，forthesakeoftheargument，Iassent。 Andwhatdoyousayofloversofwine？Doyounotseethemdoingthesame？Theyaregladofanypretextofdrinkinganywine。 Verygood。 Andthesameistrueofambitiousmen；iftheycannotcommandanarmy，theyarewillingtocommandafile；andiftheycannotbehonouredbyreallygreatandimportantpersons，theyaregladtobehonouredbylesserandmeanerpeople，buthonourofsomekindtheymusthave。 Exactly。 Oncemoreletmeask：Doeshewhodesiresanyclassofgoods，desirethewholeclassorapartonly？ Thewhole。 Andmaywenotsayofthephilosopherthatheisalover，notofapartofwisdomonly，butofthewhole？ Yes，ofthewhole。 Andhewhodislikeslearnings，especiallyinyouth，whenhehasnopowerofjudgingwhatisgoodandwhatisnot，suchanonewemaintainnottobeaphilosopheroraloverofknowledge，justashewhorefuseshisfoodisnothungry，andmaybesaidtohaveabadappetiteandnotagoodone？ Verytrue，hesaid。 Whereashewhohasatasteforeverysortofknowledgeandwhoiscurioustolearnandisneversatisfied，maybejustlytermedaphilosopher？AmInotright？ Glauconsaid：Ifcuriositymakesaphilosopher，youwillfindmanyastrangebeingwillhaveatitletothename。Alltheloversofsightshaveadelightinlearning，andmustthereforebeincluded。 Musicalamateurs，too，areafolkstrangelyoutofplaceamongphilosophers，fortheyarethelastpersonsintheworldwhowouldcometoanythinglikeaphilosophicaldiscussion，iftheycouldhelp，whiletheyrunaboutattheDionysiacfestivalsasiftheyhadletouttheirearstoheareverychorus；whethertheperformanceisintownorcountry——thatmakesnodifference——theyarethere。Nowarewetomaintainthatalltheseandanywhohavesimilartastes，aswellastheprofessorsofquiteminorarts，arephilosophers？ Certainlynot，Ireplied；theyareonlyanimitation。 Hesaid：Whothenarethetruephilosophers？ Those，Isaid，whoareloversofthevisionoftruth。 Thatisalsogood，hesaid；butIshouldliketoknowwhatyoumean？ Toanother，Ireplied，Imighthaveadifficultyinexplaining； butIamsurethatyouwilladmitapropositionwhichIamabouttomake。 Whatistheproposition？ Thatsincebeautyistheoppositeofugliness，theyaretwo？ Certainly。 Andinasmuchastheyaretwo，eachofthemisone？ Trueagain。 Andofjustandunjust，goodandevil，andofeveryotherclass，thesameremarkholds：takensingly，eachofthemone；butfromthevariouscombinationsofthemwithactionsandthingsandwithoneanother，theyareseeninallsortsoflightsandappearmany？Verytrue。 AndthisisthedistinctionwhichIdrawbetweenthesight—loving，art—loving，practicalclassandthoseofwhomIamspeaking，andwhoarealoneworthyofthenameofphilosophers。 Howdoyoudistinguishthem？hesaid。 Theloversofsoundsandsights，Ireplied，are，asIconceive，fondoffinetonesandcoloursandformsandalltheartificialproductsthataremadeoutofthem，buttheirmindisincapableofseeingorlovingabsolutebeauty。 True，hereplied。 Fewaretheywhoareabletoattaintothesightofthis。 Verytrue。 Andhewho，havingasenseofbeautifulthingshasnosenseofabsolutebeauty，orwho，ifanotherleadhimtoaknowledgeofthatbeautyisunabletofollow——ofsuchanoneIask，Isheawakeorinadreamonly？Reflect：isnotthedreamer，sleepingorwaking，onewholikensdissimilarthings，whoputsthecopyintheplaceoftherealobject？ Ishouldcertainlysaythatsuchanonewasdreaming。 Buttakethecaseoftheother，whorecognisestheexistenceofabsolutebeautyandisabletodistinguishtheideafromtheobjectswhichparticipateintheidea，neitherputtingtheobjectsintheplaceoftheideanortheideaintheplaceoftheobjects——isheadreamer，orisheawake？ Heiswideawake。 Andmaywenotsaythatthemindoftheonewhoknowshasknowledge，andthatthemindoftheother，whoopinesonly，hasopinionCertainly。 Butsupposethatthelattershouldquarrelwithusanddisputeourstatement，canweadministeranysoothingcordialoradvicetohim，withoutrevealingtohimthatthereissaddisorderinhiswits？ Wemustcertainlyofferhimsomegoodadvice，hereplied。 Come，then，andletusthinkofsomethingtosaytohim。Shallwebeginbyassuringhimthatheiswelcometoanyknowledgewhichhemayhave，andthatwearerejoicedathishavingit？Butweshouldliketoaskhimaquestion：Doeshewhohasknowledgeknowsomethingornothing？（Youmustanswerforhim。） Ianswerthatheknowssomething。 Somethingthatisorisnot？ Somethingthatis；forhowcanthatwhichisnoteverbeknown？ Andareweassured，afterlookingatthematterfrommanypointsofview，thatabsolutebeingisormaybeabsolutelyknown，butthattheutterlynon—existentisutterlyunknown？ Nothingcanbemorecertain。 Good。Butiftherebeanythingwhichisofsuchanatureastobeandnottobe，thatwillhaveaplaceintermediatebetweenpurebeingandtheabsolutenegationofbeing？ Yes，betweenthem。 And，asknowledgecorrespondedtobeingandignoranceofnecessitytonot—being，forthatintermediatebetweenbeingandnot—beingtherehastobediscoveredacorrespondingintermediatebetweenignoranceandknowledge，iftherebesuch？ Certainly。 Doweadmittheexistenceofopinion？ Undoubtedly。 Asbeingthesamewithknowledge，oranotherfaculty？ Anotherfaculty。 Thenopinionandknowledgehavetodowithdifferentkindsofmattercorrespondingtothisdifferenceoffaculties？ Yes。 Andknowledgeisrelativetobeingandknowsbeing。ButbeforeI proceedfurtherIwillmakeadivision。 Whatdivision？ Iwillbeginbyplacingfacultiesinaclassbythemselves：theyarepowersinus，andinallotherthings，bywhichwedoaswedo。 Sightandhearing，forexample，Ishouldcallfaculties。HaveI clearlyexplainedtheclasswhichImean？ Yes，Iquiteunderstand。 Thenletmetellyoumyviewaboutthem。Idonotseethem，andthereforethedistinctionsoffire，colour，andthelike，whichenablemetodiscernthedifferencesofsomethings，donotapplytothem。InspeakingofafacultyIthinkonlyofitssphereanditsresult；andthatwhichhasthesamesphereandthesameresultIcallthesamefaculty，butthatwhichhasanothersphereandanotherresultIcalldifferent。Wouldthatbeyourwayofspeaking？ Yes。 Andwillyoubesoverygoodastoansweronemorequestion？Wouldyousaythatknowledgeisafaculty，orinwhatclasswouldyouplaceit？ Certainlyknowledgeisafaculty，andthemightiestofallfaculties。 Andisopinionalsoafaculty？ Certainly，hesaid；foropinionisthatwithwhichweareabletoformanopinion。 Andyetyouwereacknowledgingalittlewhileagothatknowledgeisnotthesameasopinion？ Why，yes，hesaid：howcananyreasonablebeingeveridentifythatwhichisinfalliblewiththatwhicherrs？ Anexcellentanswer，proving，Isaid，thatwearequiteconsciousofadistinctionbetweenthem。 Yes。 Thenknowledgeandopinionhavingdistinctpowershavealsodistinctspheresorsubject—matters？ Thatiscertain。 Beingisthesphereorsubject—matterofknowledge，andknowledgeistoknowthenatureofbeing？ Yes。 Andopinionistohaveanopinion？ Yes。 Anddoweknowwhatweopine？oristhesubject—matterofopinionthesameasthesubject—matterofknowledge？ Nay，hereplied，thathasbeenalreadydisproven；ifdifferenceinfacultyimpliesdifferenceinthesphereorsubjectmatter，andif，asweweresaying，opinionandknowledgearedistinctfaculties，thenthesphereofknowledgeandofopinioncannotbethesame。 Thenifbeingisthesubject—matterofknowledge，somethingelsemustbethesubject—matterofopinion？ Yes，somethingelse。 Wellthen，isnot—beingthesubject—matterofopinion？or，rather，howcantherebeanopinionatallaboutnot—being？Reflect：whenamanhasanopinion，hashenotanopinionaboutsomething？Canhehaveanopinionwhichisanopinionaboutnothing？ Impossible。 Hewhohasanopinionhasanopinionaboutsomeonething？ Yes。 Andnot—beingisnotonethingbut，properlyspeaking，nothing？ True。 Ofnot—being，ignorancewasassumedtobethenecessarycorrelative； ofbeing，knowledge？ True，hesaid。 Thenopinionisnotconcernedeitherwithbeingorwithnot—being？ Notwitheither。 Andcanthereforeneitherbeignorancenorknowledge？ Thatseemstobetrue。 Butisopiniontobesoughtwithoutandbeyondeitherofthem，inagreaterclearnessthanknowledge，orinagreaterdarknessthanignorance？ Inneither。 ThenIsupposethatopinionappearstoyoutobedarkerthanknowledge，butlighterthanignorance？ Both；andinnosmalldegree。 Andalsotobewithinandbetweenthem？ Yes。