第16章

wassaying，willbeforbiddentointer—marry。This，however，isnottobeunderstoodasanabsoluteprohibitionofthemarriageofbrothersandsisters；ifthelotfavoursthem，andtheyreceivethesanctionofthePythianoracle，thelawwillallowthem。 Quiteright，hereplied。 Suchisthescheme，Glaucon，accordingtowhichtheguardiansofourStatearetohavetheirwivesandfamiliesincommon。Andnowyouwouldhavetheargumentshowthatthiscommunityisconsistentwiththerestofourpolity，andalsothatnothingcanbebetter——wouldyounot？ Yes，certainly。 ShallwetrytofindacommonbasisbyaskingofourselveswhatoughttobethechiefaimofthelegislatorinmakinglawsandintheorganizationofaState，——whatisthegreatestIgood，andwhatisthegreatestevil，andthenconsiderwhetherourpreviousdescriptionhasthestampofthegoodoroftheevil？ Byallmeans。 Cantherebeanygreaterevilthandiscordanddistractionandpluralitywhereunityoughttoreign？oranygreatergoodthanthebondofunity？ Therecannot。 Andthereisunitywherethereiscommunityofpleasuresandpains——whereallthecitizensaregladorgrievedonthesameoccasionsofjoyandsorrow？ Nodoubt。 Yes；andwherethereisnocommonbutonlyprivatefeelingaStateisdisorganized——whenyouhaveonehalfoftheworldtriumphingandtheotherplungedingriefatthesameeventshappeningtothecityorthecitizens？ Certainly。 Suchdifferencescommonlyoriginateinadisagreementabouttheuseoftheterms’mine’and’notmine，’’his’and’nothis。’ Exactlyso。 Andisnotthatthebest—orderedStateinwhichthegreatestnumberofpersonsapplytheterms’mine’and’notmine’inthesamewaytothesamething？ Quitetrue。 Orthatagainwhichmostnearlyapproachestotheconditionoftheindividual——asinthebody，whenbutafingerofoneofusishurt，thewholeframe，drawntowardsthesoulasacenterandformingonekingdomundertherulingpowertherein，feelsthehurtandsympathizesalltogetherwiththepartaffected，andwesaythatthemanhasapaininhisfinger；andthesameexpressionisusedaboutanyotherpartofthebody，whichhasasensationofpainatsufferingorofpleasureatthealleviationofsuffering。 Verytrue，hereplied；andIagreewithyouthatinthebest—orderedStatethereisthenearestapproachtothiscommonfeelingwhichyoudescribe。 Thenwhenanyoneofthecitizensexperiencesanygoodorevil，thewholeStatewillmakehiscasetheirown，andwilleitherrejoiceorsorrowwithhim？ Yes，hesaid，thatiswhatwillhappeninawell—orderedState。 Itwillnowbetime，Isaid，forustoreturntoourStateandseewhetherthisorsomeotherformismostinaccordancewiththesefundamentalprinciples。 Verygood。 OurStatelikeeveryotherhasrulersandsubjects？ True。 Allofwhomwillcalloneanothercitizens？ Ofcourse。 ButistherenotanothernamewhichpeoplegivetotheirrulersinotherStates？ Generallytheycallthemmasters，butindemocraticStatestheysimplycallthemrulers。 AndinourStatewhatothernamebesidesthatofcitizensdothepeoplegivetherulers？ Theyarecalledsavioursandhelpers，hereplied。 Andwhatdotherulerscallthepeople？ Theirmaintainersandfoster—fathers。 AndwhatdotheycalltheminotherStates？ Slaves。 AndwhatdotherulerscalloneanotherinotherStates？ Fellow—rulers。 Andwhatinours？ Fellow—guardians。 DidyoueverknowanexampleinanyotherStateofarulerwhowouldspeakofoneofhiscolleaguesashisfriendandofanotherasnotbeinghisfriend？ Yes，veryoften。 Andthefriendheregardsanddescribesasoneinwhomhehasaninterest，andtheotherasastrangerinwhomhehasnointerest？ Exactly。 Butwouldanyofyourguardiansthinkorspeakofanyotherguardianasastranger？ Certainlyhewouldnot；foreveryonewhomtheymeetwillberegardedbythemeitherasabrotherorsister，orfatherormother，orsonordaughter，orasthechildorparentofthosewhoarethusconnectedwithhim。 Capital，Isaid；butletmeaskyouoncemore：Shalltheybeafamilyinnameonly；orshalltheyinalltheiractionsbetruetothename？Forexample，intheuseoftheword’father，’wouldthecareofafatherbeimpliedandthefilialreverenceanddutyandobediencetohimwhichthelawcommands；andistheviolatorofthesedutiestoberegardedasanimpiousandunrighteouspersonwhoisnotlikelytoreceivemuchgoodeitheratthehandsofGodorofman？ Arethesetobeornottobethestrainswhichthechildrenwillhearrepeatedintheirearsbyallthecitizensaboutthosewhoareintimatedtothemtobetheirparentsandtherestoftheirkinsfolk？ These，hesaid，andnoneother；forwhatcanbemoreridiculousthanforthemtoutterthenamesoffamilytieswiththelipsonlyandnottoactinthespiritofthem？ Theninourcitythelanguageofharmonyandconcordwillbemoreoftenbeardthaninanyother。AsIwasdescribingbefore，whenanyoneiswellorill，theuniversalwordwillbewithmeitiswell’ or’itisill。’ Mosttrue。 Andagreeablytothismodeofthinkingandspeaking，werewenotsayingthattheywillhavetheirpleasuresandpainsincommon？ Yes，andsotheywill。 Andtheywillhaveacommoninterestinthesamethingwhichtheywillalikecall’myown，’andhavingthiscommoninteresttheywillhaveacommonfeelingofpleasureandpain？ Yes，farmoresothaninotherStates。 Andthereasonofthis，overandabovethegeneralconstitutionoftheState，willbethattheguardianswillhaveacommunityofwomenandchildren？ Thatwillbethechiefreason。 Andthisunityoffeelingweadmittedtobethegreatestgood，aswasimpliedinourowncomparisonofawell—orderedStatetotherelationofthebodyandthemembers，whenaffectedbypleasureorpain？ Thatweacknowledged，andveryrightly。 ThenthecommunityofwivesandchildrenamongourcitizensisclearlythesourceofthegreatestgoodtotheState？ Certainly。 Andthisagreeswiththeotherprinciplewhichwewereaffirming，——thattheguardianswerenottohavehousesorlandsoranyotherproperty；theirpaywastobetheirfood，whichtheyweretoreceivefromtheothercitizens，andtheyweretohavenoprivateexpenses； forweintendedthemtopreservetheirtruecharacterofguardians。 Right，hereplied。 Boththecommunityofpropertyandthecommunityoffamilies，asI amsaying，tendtomakethemmoretrulyguardians；theywillnottearthecityinpiecesbydifferingabout’mine’and’notmine；’eachmandragginganyacquisitionwhichhehasmadeintoaseparatehouseofhisown，wherehehasaseparatewifeandchildrenandprivatepleasuresandpains；butallwillbeaffectedasfarasmaybebythesamepleasuresandpainsbecausetheyareallofoneopinionaboutwhatisnearanddeartothem，andthereforetheyalltendtowardsacommonend。 Certainly，hereplied。 Andastheyhavenothingbuttheirpersonswhichtheycancalltheirown，suitsandcomplaintswillhavenoexistenceamongthem；theywillbedeliveredfromallthosequarrelsofwhichmoneyorchildrenorrelationsaretheoccasion。 Ofcoursetheywill。 Neitherwilltrialsforassaultorinsulteverbelikelytooccuramongthem。Forthatequalsshoulddefendthemselvesagainstequalsweshallmaintaintobehonourableandright；weshallmaketheprotectionofthepersonamatterofnecessity。 Thatisgood，hesaid。 Yes；andthereisafurthergoodinthelaw；viz。thatifamanhasaquarrelwithanotherhewillsatisfyhisresentmentthenandthere，andnotproceedtomoredangerouslengths。 Certainly。 Totheeldershallbeassignedthedutyofrulingandchastisingtheyounger。 Clearly。 Norcantherebeadoubtthattheyoungerwillnotstrikeordoanyotherviolencetoanelder，unlessthemagistratescommandhim； norwillheslighthiminanyway。Fortherearetwoguardians，shameandfear，mightytopreventhim：shame，whichmakesmenrefrainfromlayinghandsonthosewhoaretothemintherelationofparents；fear，thattheinjuredonewillbesuccouredbytheotherswhoarehisbrothers，sons，onewifathers。 Thatistrue，hereplied。 Thenineverywaythelawswillhelpthecitizenstokeepthepeacewithoneanother？ Yes，therewillbenowantofpeace。 Andastheguardianswillneverquarrelamongthemselvestherewillbenodangeroftherestofthecitybeingdividedeitheragainstthemoragainstoneanother。 Nonewhatever。 Ihardlylikeeventomentionthelittlemeannessesofwhichtheywillberid，fortheyarebeneathnotice：such，forexample，astheflatteryoftherichbythepoor，andallthepainsandpangswhichmenexperienceinbringingupafamily，andinfindingmoneytobuynecessariesfortheirhousehold，borrowingandthenrepudiating，gettinghowtheycan，andgivingthemoneyintothehandsofwomenandslavestokeep——themanyevilsofsomanykindswhichpeoplesufferinthiswayaremeanenoughandobviousenough，andnotworthspeakingof。 Yes，hesaid，amanhasnoneedofeyesinordertoperceivethat。 Andfromalltheseevilstheywillbedelivered，andtheirlifewillbeblessedasthelifeofOlympicvictorsandyetmoreblessed。 Howso？ TheOlympicvictor，Isaid，isdeemedhappyinreceivingapartonlyoftheblessednesswhichissecuredtoourcitizens，whohavewonamoregloriousvictoryandhaveamorecompletemaintenanceatthepubliccost。ForthevictorywhichtheyhavewonisthesalvationofthewholeState；andthecrownwithwhichtheyandtheirchildrenarecrownedisthefulnessofallthatlifeneeds；theyreceiverewardsfromthehandsoftheircountrywhileliving，andafterdeathhaveanhonourableburial。 Yes，hesaid，andgloriousrewardstheyare。 Doyouremember，Isaid，howinthecourseofthepreviousdiscussionsomeonewhoshallbenamelessaccusedusofmakingourguardiansunhappy——theyhadnothingandmighthavepossessedallthings—towhomwerepliedthat，ifanoccasionoffered，wemightperhapshereafterconsiderthisquestion，butthat，asatpresentadvised，wewouldmakeourguardianstrulyguardians，andthatwewerefashioningtheStatewithaviewtothegreatesthappiness，notofanyparticularclass，butofthewhole？ Yes，Iremember。 Andwhatdoyousay，nowthatthelifeofourprotectorsismadeouttobefarbetterandnoblerthanthatofOlympicvictors——isthelifeofshoemakers，oranyotherartisans，orofhusbandmen，tobecomparedwithit？ Certainlynot。 AtthesametimeIoughtheretorepeatwhatIhavesaidelsewhere，thatifanyofourguardiansshalltrytobehappyinsuchamannerthathewillceasetobeaguardian，andisnotcontentwiththissafeandharmoniouslife，which，inourjudgment，isofalllivesthebest，butinfatuatedbysomeyouthfulconceitofhappinesswhichgetsupintohisheadshallseektoappropriatethewholeStatetohimself，thenhewillhavetolearnhowwiselyHesiodspoke，whenhesaid，’halfismorethanthewhole。’ Ifheweretoconsultme，Ishouldsaytohim：Staywhereyouare，whenyouhavetheofferofsuchalife。 Youagreethen，Isaid，thatmenandwomenaretohaveacommonwayoflifesuchaswehavedescribed——commoneducation，commonchildren；andtheyaretowatchoverthecitizensincommonwhetherabidinginthecityorgoingouttowar；theyaretokeepwatchtogether，andtohunttogetherlikedogs；andalwaysandinallthings，asfarastheyareable，womenaretosharewiththemen？ Andinsodoingtheywilldowhatisbest，andwillnotviolate，butpreservethenaturalrelationofthesexes。 Iagreewithyou，hereplied。 Theenquiry，Isaid，hasyettobemade，whethersuchacommunitybefoundpossible——asamongotheranimals，soalsoamongmen——andifpossible，inwhatwaypossible？ YouhaveanticipatedthequestionwhichIwasabouttosuggest。 Thereisnodifficulty，Isaid，inseeinghowwarwillbecarriedonbythem。 How？ Why，ofcoursetheywillgoonexpeditionstogether；andwilltakewiththemanyoftheirchildrenwhoarestrongenough，that，afterthemanneroftheartisan’schild，theymaylookonattheworkwhichtheywillhavetodowhentheyaregrownup；andbesideslookingontheywillhavetohelpandbeofuseinwar，andtowaitupontheirfathersandmothers。Didyouneverobserveintheartshowthepotters’boyslookonandhelp，longbeforetheytouchthewheel？ Yes，Ihave。 Andshallpottersbemorecarefulineducatingtheirchildrenandingivingthemtheopportunityofseeingandpractisingtheirdutiesthanourguardianswillbe？ Theideaisridiculous，hesaid。 Thereisalsotheeffectontheparents，withwhom，aswithotheranimals，thepresenceoftheiryoungoneswillbethegreatestincentivetovalour。 Thatisquitetrue，Socrates；andyetiftheyaredefeated，whichmayoftenhappeninwar，howgreatthedangeris！thechildrenwillbelostaswellastheirparents，andtheStatewillneverrecover。 True，Isaid；butwouldyouneverallowthemtorunanyrisk？ Iamfarfromsayingthat。 Well，butiftheyareevertorunariskshouldtheynotdosoonsomeoccasionwhen，iftheyescapedisaster，theywillbethebetterforit？ Clearly。 Whetherthefuturesoldiersdoordonotseewarinthedaysoftheiryouthisaveryimportantmatter，forthesakeofwhichsomeriskmayfairlybeincurred。 Yes，veryimportant。 Thisthenmustbeourfirststep，——tomakeourchildrenspectatorsofwar；butwemustalsocontrivethattheyshallbesecuredagainstdanger；thenallwillbewell。 True。 Theirparentsmaybesupposednottobeblindtotherisksofwar，buttoknow，asfarashumanforesightcan，whatexpeditionsaresafeandwhatdangerous？ Thatmaybeassumed。 Andtheywilltakethemonthesafeexpeditionsandbecautiousaboutthedangerousones？ True。 Andtheywillplacethemunderthecommandofexperiencedveteranswhowillbetheirleadersandteachers？ Veryproperly。 Still，thedangersofwarcannotbealwaysforeseen；thereisagooddealofchanceaboutthem？ True。 Thenagainstsuchchancesthechildrenmustbeatoncefurnishedwithwings，inorderthatinthehourofneedtheymayflyawayandescape。 Whatdoyoumean？hesaid。 Imeanthatwemustmountthemonhorsesintheirearliestyouth，andwhentheyhavelearnttoride，takethemonhorsebacktoseewar：thehorsesmustbespiritedandwarlike，butthemosttractableandyettheswiftestthatcanbehad。Inthiswaytheywillgetanexcellentviewofwhatishereaftertobetheirownbusiness；andifthereisdangertheyhaveonlytofollowtheirelderleadersandescape。 Ibelievethatyouareright，hesaid。 Next，astowar；whataretobetherelationsofyoursoldierstooneanotherandtotheirenemies？Ishouldbeinclinedtoproposethatthesoldierwholeaveshisrankorthrowsawayhisarms，orisguiltyofanyotheractofcowardice，shouldbedegradedintotherankofahusbandmanorartisan。Whatdoyouthink？ Byallmeans，Ishouldsay。 Andhewhoallowshimselftobetakenprisonermayaswellbemadeapresentoftohisenemies；heistheirlawfulprey，andletthemdowhattheylikewithhim。 Certainly。 Buttheherowhohasdistinguishedhimself，whatshallbedonetohim？Inthefirstplace，heshallreceivehonourinthearmyfromhisyouthfulcomrades；everyoneoftheminsuccessionshallcrownhim。Whatdoyousay？ Iapprove。 Andwhatdoyousaytohisreceivingtherighthandoffellowship？ Tothattoo，Iagree。 Butyouwillhardlyagreetomynextproposal。 Whatisyourproposal？ Thatheshouldkissandbekissedbythem。 Mostcertainly，andIshouldbedisposedtogofurther，andsay：Letnoonewhomhehasamindtokissrefusetobekissedbyhimwhiletheexpeditionlasts。Sothatiftherebealoverinthearmy，whetherhislovebeyouthormaiden，hemaybemoreeagertowintheprizeofvalour。 Capital，Isaid。Thatthebravemanistohavemorewivesthanothershasbeenalreadydetermined：andheistohavefirstchoicesinsuchmattersmorethanothers，inorderthathemayhaveasmanychildrenaspossible？ Agreed。 Again，thereisanothermannerinwhich，accordingtoHomer，braveyouthsshouldbehonoured；forhetellshowAjax，afterhehaddistinguishedhimselfinbattle，wasrewardedwithlongchines，whichseemstobeacomplimentappropriatetoaherointheflowerofhisage，beingnotonlyatributeofhonourbutalsoaverystrengtheningthing。 Mosttrue，hesaid。 Theninthis，Isaid，Homershallbeourteacher；andwetoo，atsacrificesandonthelikeoccasions，willhonourthebraveaccordingtothemeasureoftheirvalour，whethermenorwomen，withhymnsandthoseotherdistinctionswhichwewerementioning；alsowithseatsofprecedence，andmeatsandfullcups； andinhonouringthem，weshallbeatthesametimetrainingthem。 That，hereplied，isexcellent。 Yes，Isaid；andwhenamandiesgloriouslyinwarshallwenotsay，inthefirstplace，thatheisofthegoldenrace？ Tobesure。 Nay，havewenottheauthorityofHesiodforaffirmingthatwhentheyaredeadTheyareholyangelsupontheearth，authorsofgood，avertersofevil，theguardiansofspeech—giftedmen？ Yes；andweaccepthisauthority。 Wemustlearnofthegodhowwearetoorderthesepultureofdivineandheroicpersonages，andwhatistobetheirspecialdistinctionandwemustdoashebids？ Byallmeans。 Andinagestocomewewillreverencethemandknee。beforetheirsepulchresasatthegravesofheroes。Andnotonlytheybutanywhoaredeemedpre—eminentlygood，whethertheydiefromage，orinanyotherway，shallbeadmittedtothesamehonours。 Thatisveryright，hesaid。 Next，howshalloursoldierstreattheirenemies？Whataboutthis？ Inwhatrespectdoyoumean？ Firstofall，inregardtoslavery？DoyouthinkitrightthatHellenesshouldenslaveHellenicStates，orallowotherstoenslavethem，iftheycanhelp？Shouldnottheircustombetosparethem，consideringthedangerwhichthereisthatthewholeracemayonedayfallundertheyokeofthebarbarians？ Tosparethemisinfinitelybetter。 ThennoHelleneshouldbeownedbythemasaslave；thatisarulewhichtheywillobserveandadvisetheotherHellenestoobserve。 Certainly，hesaid；theywillinthiswaybeunitedagainstthebarbariansandwillkeeptheirhandsoffoneanother。 Nextastotheslain；oughttheconquerors，Isaid，totakeanythingbuttheirarmour？Doesnotthepracticeofdespoilinganenemyaffordanexcusefornotfacingthebattle？Cowardsskulkaboutthedead，pretendingthattheyarefulfillingaduty，andmanyanarmybeforenowhasbeenlostfromthisloveofplunder。 Verytrue。