第5章

Nothingintheworld，Isaid；andifyouaresodisposedIwillaskandyoushallanswer。 Proceed。 ThenIwillrepeatthequestionwhichIaskedbefore，inorderthatourexaminationoftherelativenatureofjusticeandinjusticemaybecarriedonregularly。Astatementwasmadethatinjusticeisstrongerandmorepowerfulthanjustice，butnowjustice，havingbeenidentifiedwithwisdomandvirtue，iseasilyshowntobestrongerthaninjustice，ifinjusticeisignorance；thiscannolongerbequestionedbyanyone。ButIwanttoviewthematter，Thrasymachus，inadifferentway：Youwouldnotdenythatastatemaybeunjustandmaybeunjustlyattemptingtoenslaveotherstates，ormayhavealreadyenslavedthem，andmaybeholdingmanyoftheminsubjection？ True，hereplied；andIwilladdthebestandperfectlyunjuststatewillbemostlikelytodoso。 Iknow，Isaid，thatsuchwasyourposition；butwhatIwouldfurtherconsideris，whetherthispowerwhichispossessedbythesuperiorstatecanexistorbeexercisedwithoutjustice。 Ifyouarerightinyouview，andjusticeiswisdom，thenonlywithjustice；butifIamright，thenwithoutjustice。 Iamdelighted，Thrasymachus，toseeyounotonlynoddingassentanddissent，butmakinganswerswhicharequiteexcellent。 Thatisoutofcivilitytoyou，hereplied。 Youareverykind，Isaid；andwouldyouhavethegoodnessalsotoinformme，whetheryouthinkthatastate，oranarmy，orabandofrobbersandthieves，oranyothergangofevil—doerscouldactatalliftheyinjuredoneanother？ Noindeed，hesaid，theycouldnot。 Butiftheyabstainedfrominjuringoneanother，thentheymightacttogetherbetter？ Yes。 Andthisisbecauseinjusticecreatesdivisionsandhatredsandfighting，andjusticeimpartsharmonyandfriendship；isnotthattrue，Thrasymachus？ Iagree，hesaid，becauseIdonotwishtoquarrelwithyou。 Howgoodofyou，Isaid；butIshouldliketoknowalsowhetherinjustice，havingthistendencytoarousehatred，whereverexisting，amongslavesoramongfreemen，willnotmakethemhateoneanotherandsetthematvarianceandrenderthemincapableofcommonaction？ Certainly。 Andevenifinjusticebefoundintwoonly，willtheynotquarrelandfight，andbecomeenemiestooneanotherandtothejustTheywill。 Andsupposeinjusticeabidinginasingleperson，wouldyourwisdomsaythatshelosesorthatsheretainshernaturalpower？ Letusassumethatsheretainsherpower。 Yetisnotthepowerwhichinjusticeexercisesofsuchanaturethatwherevershetakesupherabode，whetherinacity，inanarmy，inafamily，orinanyotherbody，thatbodyis，tobeginwith，renderedincapableofunitedactionbyreasonofseditionanddistraction； anddoesitnotbecomeitsownenemyandatvariancewithallthatopposesit，andwiththejust？Isnotthisthecase？ Yes，certainly。 Andisnotinjusticeequallyfatalwhenexistinginasingleperson； inthefirstplacerenderinghimincapableofactionbecauseheisnotatunitywithhimself，andinthesecondplacemakinghimanenemytohimselfandthejust？Isnotthattrue，Thrasymachus？ Yes。 AndOmyfriend，Isaid，surelythegodsarejust？ Grantedthattheyare。 Butifso，theunjustwillbetheenemyofthegods，andthejustwillbetheirfriend？ Feastawayintriumph，andtakeyourfilloftheargument；Iwillnotopposeyou，lestIshoulddispleasethecompany。 Wellthen，proceedwithyouranswers，andletmehavetheremainderofmyrepast。Forwehavealreadyshownthatthejustareclearlywiserandbetterandablerthantheunjust，andthattheunjustareincapableofcommonaction；nayingatmore，thattospeakaswedidofmenwhoareevilactingatanytimevigorouslytogether，isnotstrictlytrue，foriftheyhadbeenperfectlyevil，theywouldhavelaidhandsupononeanother；butitisevidentthattheremusthavebeensomeremnantofjusticeinthem，whichenabledthemtocombine；iftherehadnotbeentheywouldhaveinjuredoneanotheraswellastheirvictims；theywerebuthalf——villainsintheirenterprises；forhadtheybeenwholevillains，andutterlyunjust，theywouldhavebeenutterlyincapableofaction。That，asI believe，isthetruthofthematter，andnotwhatyousaidatfirst。 Butwhetherthejusthaveabetterandhappierlifethantheunjustisafurtherquestionwhichwealsoproposedtoconsider。Ithinkthattheyhave，andforthereasonswhichtohavegiven；butstillIshouldliketoexaminefurther，fornolightmatterisatstake，nothinglessthantheruleofhumanlife。 Proceed。 Iwillproceedbyaskingaquestion：Wouldyounotsaythatahorsehassomeend？ Ishould。 Andtheendoruseofahorseorofanythingwouldbethatwhichcouldnotbeaccomplished，ornotsowellaccomplished，byanyotherthing？ Idonotunderstand，hesaid。 Letmeexplain：Canyousee，exceptwiththeeye？ Certainlynot。 Orhear，exceptwiththeear？ No。 Thesethenmaybetrulysaidtobetheendsoftheseorgans？ Theymay。 Butyoucancutoffavine—branchwithadaggerorwithachisel，andinmanyotherways？ Ofcourse。 Andyetnotsowellaswithapruning—hookmadeforthepurpose？ True。 Maywenotsaythatthisistheendofapruning—hook？ Wemay。 ThennowIthinkyouwillhavenodifficultyinunderstandingmymeaningwhenIaskedthequestionwhethertheendofanythingwouldbethatwhichcouldnotbeaccomplished，ornotsowellaccomplished，byanyotherthing？ Iunderstandyourmeaning，hesaid，andassent。 Andthattowhichanendisappointedhasalsoanexcellence？NeedI askagainwhethertheeyehasanend？ Ithas。 Andhasnottheeyeanexcellence？ Yes。 Andtheearhasanendandanexcellencealso？ True。 Andthesameistrueofallotherthings；theyhaveeachofthemanendandaspecialexcellence？ Thatisso。 Well，andcantheeyesfulfiltheirendiftheyarewantingintheirownproperexcellenceandhaveadefectinstead？ Howcanthey，hesaid，iftheyareblindandcannotsee？ Youmeantosay，iftheyhavelosttheirproperexcellence，whichissight；butIhavenotarrivedatthatpointyet。Iwouldratheraskthequestionmoregenerally，andonlyenquirewhetherthethingswhichfulfiltheirendsfulfilthembytheirownproperexcellence，andfalloffulfillingthembytheirowndefect？ Certainly，hereplied。 Imightsaythesameoftheears；whendeprivedoftheirownproperexcellencetheycannotfulfiltheirend？ True。 Andthesameobservationwillapplytoallotherthings？ Iagree。 Well；andhasnotthesoulanendwhichnothingelsecanfulfil？forexample，tosuperintendandcommandanddeliberateandthelike。Arenotthesefunctionspropertothesoul，andcantheyrightlybeassignedtoanyother？ Tonoother。 Andisnotlifetobereckonedamongtheendsofthesoul？ Assuredly，hesaid。 Andhasnotthesoulanexcellencealso？ Yes。 Andcansheorcanshenotfulfilherownendswhendeprivedofthatexcellence？ Shecannot。 Thenanevilsoulmustnecessarilybeanevilrulerandsuperintendent，andthegoodsoulagoodruler？ Yes，necessarily。 Andwehaveadmittedthatjusticeistheexcellenceofthesoul，andinjusticethedefectofthesoul？ Thathasbeenadmitted。 Thenthejustsoulandthejustmanwilllivewell，andtheunjustmanwillliveill？ Thatiswhatyourargumentproves。 Andhewholiveswellisblessedandhappy，andhewholivesillthereverseofhappy？ Certainly。 Thenthejustishappy，andtheunjustmiserable？ Sobeit。 Buthappinessandnotmiseryisprofitable。 Ofcourse。 Then，myblessedThrasymachus，injusticecanneverbemoreprofitablethanjustice。 Letthis，Socrates，hesaid，beyourentertainmentattheBendidea。 ForwhichIamindebtedtoyou，Isaid，nowthatyouhavegrowngentletowardsmeandhaveleftoffscolding。Nevertheless，Ihavenotbeenwellentertained；butthatwasmyownfaultandnotyours。Asanepicuresnatchesatasteofeverydishwhichissuccessivelybroughttotable，henothavingallowedhimselftimetoenjoytheonebefore，sohaveIgonefromonesubjecttoanotherwithouthavingdiscoveredwhatIsoughtatfirst，thenatureofjustice。I leftthatenquiryandturnedawaytoconsiderwhetherjusticeisvirtueandwisdomorevilandfolly；andwhentherearoseafurtherquestionaboutthecomparativeadvantagesofjusticeandinjustice，Icouldnotrefrainfrompassingontothat。AndtheresultofthewholediscussionhasbeenthatIknownothingatall。ForIknownotwhatjusticeis，andthereforeIamnotlikelytoknowwhetheritisorisnotavirtue，norcanIsaywhetherthejustmanishappyorunhappy。 BOOKII SOCRATES—GLAUCON WITHthesewordsIwasthinkingthatIhadmadeanendofthediscussion；buttheend，intruth，provedtobeonlyabeginning。 ForGlaucon，whoisalwaysthemostpugnaciousofmen，wasdissatisfiedatThrasymachus’retirement；hewantedtohavethebattleout。Sohesaidtome：Socrates，doyouwishreallytopersuadeus，oronlytoseemtohavepersuadedus，thattobejustisalwaysbetterthantobeunjust？ Ishouldwishreallytopersuadeyou，Ireplied，ifIcould。 Thenyoucertainlyhavenotsucceeded。Letmeaskyounow：——Howwouldyouarrangegoods——aretherenotsomewhichwewelcomefortheirownsakes，andindependentlyoftheirconsequences，as，forexample，harmlesspleasuresandenjoyments，whichdelightusatthetime，althoughnothingfollowsfromthem？ Iagreeinthinkingthatthereissuchaclass，Ireplied。 Istherenotalsoasecondclassofgoods，suchasknowledge，sight，health，whicharedesirablenotonlyinthemselves，butalsofortheirresults？ Certainly，Isaid。 Andwouldyounotrecognizeathirdclass，suchasgymnastic，andthecareofthesick，andthephysician’sart；alsothevariouswaysofmoney—making——thesedousgoodbutweregardthemasdisagreeable； andnoonewouldchoosethemfortheirownsakes，butonlyforthesakeofsomerewardorresultwhichflowsfromthem？ Thereis，Isaid，thisthirdclassalso。Butwhydoyouask？ BecauseIwanttoknowinwhichofthethreeclassesyouwouldplacejustice？ Inthehighestclass，Ireplied，——amongthosegoodswhichhewhowouldbehappydesiresbothfortheirownsakeandforthesakeoftheirresults。 Thenthemanyareofanothermind；theythinkthatjusticeistobereckonedinthetroublesomeclass，amonggoodswhicharetobepursuedforthesakeofrewardsandofreputation，butinthemselvesaredisagreeableandrathertobeavoided。 Iknow，Isaid，thatthisistheirmannerofthinking，andthatthiswasthethesiswhichThrasymachuswasmaintainingjustnow，whenhecensuredjusticeandpraisedinjustice。ButIamtoostupidtobeconvincedbyhim。 Iwish，hesaid，thatyouwouldhearmeaswellashim，andthenI shallseewhetheryouandIagree。ForThrasymachusseemstome，likeasnake，tohavebeencharmedbyyourvoicesoonerthanheoughttohavebeen；buttomymindthenatureofjusticeandinjusticehavenotyetbeenmadeclear。Settingasidetheirrewardsandresults，Iwanttoknowwhattheyareinthemselves，andhowtheyinwardlyworkinthesoul。Ifyou，please，then，IwillrevivetheargumentofThrasymachus。AndfirstIwillspeakofthenatureandoriginofjusticeaccordingtothecommonviewofthem。Secondly，Iwillshowthatallmenwhopractisejusticedosoagainsttheirwill，ofnecessity，butnotasagood。Andthirdly，Iwillarguethatthereisreasoninthisview，forthelifeoftheunjustisafterallbetterfarthanthelifeofthejust——ifwhattheysayistrue，Socrates，sinceImyselfamnotoftheiropinion。ButstillIacknowledgethatI amperplexedwhenIhearthevoicesofThrasymachusandmyriadsofothersdinninginmyears；and，ontheotherhand，Ihaveneveryetheardthesuperiorityofjusticetoinjusticemaintainedbyanyoneinasatisfactoryway。Iwanttohearjusticepraisedinrespectofitself；thenIshallbesatisfied，andyouarethepersonfromwhomIthinkthatIammostlikelytohearthis；andthereforeIwillpraisetheunjustlifetotheutmostofmypower，andmymannerofspeakingwillindicatethemannerinwhichIdesiretohearyoutoopraisingjusticeandcensuringinjustice。Willyousaywhetheryouapproveofmyproposal？ IndeedIdo；norcanIimagineanythemeaboutwhichamanofsensewouldoftenerwishtoconverse。 Iamdelighted，hereplied，tohearyousayso，andshallbeginbyspeaking，asIproposed，ofthenatureandoriginofjustice。 GLAUCON Theysaythattodoinjusticeis，bynature，good；tosufferinjustice，evil；butthattheevilisgreaterthanthegood。Andsowhenmenhavebothdoneandsufferedinjusticeandhavehadexperienceofboth，notbeingabletoavoidtheoneandobtaintheother，theythinkthattheyhadbetteragreeamongthemselvestohaveneither； hencethereariselawsandmutualcovenants；andthatwhichisordainedbylawistermedbythemlawfulandjust。Thistheyaffirmtobetheoriginandnatureofjustice；——itisameanorcompromise，betweenthebestofall，whichistodoinjusticeandnotbepunished，andtheworstofall，whichistosufferinjusticewithoutthepowerofretaliation；andjustice，beingatamiddlepointbetweenthetwo，istoleratednotasagood，butasthelesserevil，andhonouredbyreasonoftheinabilityofmentodoinjustice。Fornomanwhoisworthytobecalledamanwouldeversubmittosuchanagreementifhewereabletoresist；hewouldbemadifhedid。Suchisthereceivedaccount，Socrates，ofthenatureandoriginofjustice。 Nowthatthosewhopractisejusticedosoinvoluntarilyandbecausetheyhavenotthepowertobeunjustwillbestappearifweimaginesomethingofthiskind：havinggivenbothtothejustandtheunjustpowertodowhattheywill，letuswatchandseewhitherdesirewillleadthem；thenweshalldiscoverintheveryactthejustandunjustmantobeproceedingalongthesameroad，followingtheirinterest，whichallnaturesdeemtobetheirgood，andareonlydivertedintothepathofjusticebytheforceoflaw。ThelibertywhichwearesupposingmaybemostcompletelygiventothemintheformofsuchapowerasissaidtohavebeenpossessedbyGygestheancestorofCroesustheLydian。Accordingtothetradition，GygeswasashepherdintheserviceofthekingofLydia；therewasagreatstorm，andanearthquakemadeanopeningintheearthattheplacewherehewasfeedinghisflock。Amazedatthesight，hedescendedintotheopening，where，amongothermarvels，hebeheldahollowbrazenhorse，havingdoors，atwhichhestoopingandlookinginsawadeadbodyofstature，asappearedtohim，morethanhuman，andhavingnothingonbutagoldring；thishetookfromthefingerofthedeadandreascended。Nowtheshepherdsmettogether，accordingtocustom，thattheymightsendtheirmonthlyreportabouttheflockstotheking；intotheirassemblyhecamehavingtheringonhisfinger，andashewassittingamongthemhechancedtoturnthecolletoftheringinsidehishand，wheninstantlyhebecameinvisibletotherestofthecompanyandtheybegantospeakofhimasifhewerenolongerpresent。Hewasastonishedatthis，andagaintouchingtheringheturnedthecolletoutwardsandreappeared；hemadeseveraltrialsofthering，andalwayswiththesameresult—whenheturnedthecolletinwardshebecameinvisible，whenoutwardshereappeared。Whereuponhecontrivedtobechosenoneofthemessengerswhoweresenttothecourt；whereassoonashearrivedheseducedthequeen，andwithherhelpconspiredagainstthekingandslewhim，andtookthekingdom。Supposenowthatthereweretwosuchmagicrings，andthejustputononeofthemandtheunjusttheother；，nomancanbeimaginedtobeofsuchanironnaturethathewouldstandfastinjustice。Nomanwouldkeephishandsoffwhatwasnothisownwhenhecouldsafelytakewhathelikedoutofthemarket，orgointohousesandliewithanyoneathispleasure，orkillorreleasefromprisonwhomhewould，andinallrespectsbelikeaGodamongmen。 Thentheactionsofthejustwouldbeastheactionsoftheunjust； theywouldbothcomeatlasttothesamepoint。Andthiswemaytrulyaffirmtobeagreatproofthatamanisjust，notwillinglyorbecausehethinksthatjusticeisanygoodtohimindividually，butofnecessity，forwhereveranyonethinksthathecansafelybeunjust，thereheisunjust。Forallmenbelieveintheirheartsthatinjusticeisfarmoreprofitabletotheindividualthanjustice，andhewhoarguesasIhavebeensupposing，willsaythattheyareright。Ifyoucouldimagineanyoneobtainingthispowerofbecominginvisible，andneverdoinganywrongortouchingwhatwasanother’s，hewouldbethoughtbythelookers—ontobeamostwretchedidiot，althoughtheywouldpraisehimtooneanother’sfaces，andkeepupappearanceswithoneanotherfromafearthattheytoomightsufferinjustice。Enoughofthis。 Now，ifwearetoformarealjudgmentofthelifeofthejustandunjust，wemustisolatethem；thereisnootherway；andhowistheisolationtobeeffected？Ianswer：Lettheunjustmanbeentirelyunjust，andthejustmanentirelyjust；nothingistobetakenawayfromeitherofthem，andbotharetobeperfectlyfurnishedfortheworkoftheirrespectivelives。First，lettheunjustbelikeotherdistinguishedmastersofcraft；liketheskilfulpilotorphysician，whoknowsintuitivelyhisownpowersandkeepswithintheirlimits，andwho，ifhefailsatanypoint，isabletorecoverhimself。Solettheunjustmakehisunjustattemptsintherightway，andliehiddenifhemeanstobegreatinhisinjustice（hewhoisfoundoutisnobody）：forthehighestreachofinjusticeis：tobedeemedjustwhenyouarenot。ThereforeIsaythatintheperfectlyunjustmanwemustassumethemostperfectinjustice；thereistobenodeduction，butwemustallowhim，whiledoingthemostunjustacts，tohaveacquiredthegreatestreputationforjustice。Ifhehavetakenafalsestephemustbeabletorecoverhimself；hemustbeonewhocanspeakwitheffect，ifanyofhisdeedscometolight，andwhocanforcehiswaywhereforceisrequiredhiscourageandstrength，andcommandofmoneyandfriends。Andathissideletusplacethejustmaninhisnoblenessandsimplicity，wishing，asAeschylussays，tobeandnottoseemgood。Theremustbenoseeming，forifheseemtobejusthewillbehonouredandrewarded，andthenweshallnotknowwhetherheisjustforthesakeofjusticeorforthesakeofhonoursandrewards；therefore，lethimbeclothedinjusticeonly，andhavenoothercovering；andhemustbeimaginedinastateoflifetheoppositeoftheformer。Lethimbethebestofmen，andlethimbethoughttheworst；thenhewillhavebeenputtotheproof；andweshallseewhetherhewillbeaffectedbythefearofinfamyanditsconsequences。Andlethimcontinuethustothehourofdeath；beingjustandseemingtobeunjust。Whenbothhavereachedtheuttermostextreme，theoneofjusticeandtheotherofinjustice，letjudgmentbegivenwhichofthemisthehappierofthetwo。 SOCRATES—GLAUCON Heavens！mydearGlaucon，Isaid，howenergeticallyyoupolishthemupforthedecision，firstoneandthentheother，asiftheyweretwostatues。 Idomybest，hesaid。Andnowthatweknowwhattheyarelikethereisnodifficultyintracingoutthesortoflifewhichawaitseitherofthem。ThisIwillproceedtodescribe；butasyoumaythinkthedescriptionalittletoocoarse，Iaskyoutosuppose，Socrates，thatthewordswhichfollowarenotmine。——Letmeputthemintothemouthsoftheeulogistsofinjustice：Theywilltellyouthatthejustmanwhoisthoughtunjustwillbescourged，racked，bound——willhavehiseyesburntout；and，atlast，aftersufferingeverykindofevil，hewillbeimpaled：Thenhewillunderstandthatheoughttoseemonly，andnottobe，just；thewordsofAeschylusmaybemoretrulyspokenoftheunjustthanofthejust。Fortheunjustispursuingareality；hedoesnotlivewithaviewtoappearances——hewantstobereallyunjustandnottoseemonly：—— Hismindhasasoildeepandfertile，Outofwhichspringhisprudentcounsels。 Inthefirstplace，heisthoughtjust，andthereforebearsruleinthecity；hecanmarrywhomhewill，andgiveinmarriagetowhomhewill；alsohecantradeanddealwherehelikes，andalwaystohisownadvantage，becausehehasnomisgivingsaboutinjusticeandateverycontest，whetherinpublicorprivate，hegetsthebetterofhisantagonists，andgainsattheirexpense，andisrich，andoutofhisgainshecanbenefithisfriends，andharmhisenemies；moreover，hecanoffersacrifices，anddedicategiftstothegodsabundantlyandmagnificently，andcanhonourthegodsoranymanwhomhewantstohonourinafarbetterstylethanthejust，andthereforeheislikelytobedearerthantheyaretothegods。Andthus，Socrates，godsandmenaresaidtouniteinmakingthelifeoftheunjustbetterthanthelifeofthejust。 ADEIMANTUS—SOCRATES IwasgoingtosaysomethinginanswertoGlaucon，whenAdeimantus，hisbrother，interposed：Socrates，hesaid，youdonotsupposethatthereisnothingmoretobeurged？ Why，whatelseisthere？Ianswered。 Thestrongestpointofallhasnotbeenevenmentioned，hereplied。 Well，then，accordingtotheproverb，’Letbrotherhelpbrother’ ——ifhefailsinanypartdoyouassisthim；althoughImustconfessthatGlauconhasalreadysaidquiteenoughtolaymeinthedust，andtakefrommethepowerofhelpingjustice。