第2章

Soc。Marknowthefartherdevelopment。Ishallonlyaskhim，andnotteachhim，andheshallsharetheenquirywithme：anddoyouwatchandseeifyoufindmetellingorexplaininganythingtohim，insteadofelicitinghisopinion。Tellme，boy，isnotthisasquareoffourfeetwhichIhavedrawn？ Boy。Yes。 Soc。AndnowIaddanothersquareequaltotheformerone？ Boy。Yes。 Soc。Andathird，whichisequaltoeitherofthem？ Boy。Yes。 Soc。Supposethatwefillupthevacantcorner？ Boy。Verygood。 Soc。Here，then，therearefourequalspaces？ Boy。Yes。 Soc。Andhowmanytimeslargeristhisspacethanthisother？ Boy。Fourtimes。 Soc。Butitoughttohavebeentwiceonly，asyouwillremember。 Boy。True。 Soc。Anddoesnotthisline，reachingfromcornertocorner，bisecteachofthesespaces？ Boy。Yes。 Soc。Andaretherenotherefourequallineswhichcontainthisspace？ Boy。Thereare。 Soc。Lookandseehowmuchthisspaceis。 Boy。Idonotunderstand。 Soc。Hasnoteachinteriorlinecutoffhalfofthefourspaces？ Boy。Yes。 Soc。Andhowmanyspacesarethereinthissection？ Boy。Four。 Soc。Andhowmanyinthis？ Boy。Two。 Soc。Andfourishowmanytimestwo？ Boy。Twice。 Soc。Andthisspaceisofhowmanyfeet？ Boy。Ofeightfeet。 Soc。Andfromwhatlinedoyougetthisfigure？ Boy。Fromthis。 Soc。Thatis，fromthelinewhichextendsfromcornertocornerofthefigureoffourfeet？ Boy。Yes。 Soc。Andthatisthelinewhichthelearnedcallthediagonal。Andifthisisthepropername，thenyou，Meno’sslave，arepreparedtoaffirmthatthedoublespaceisthesquareofthediagonal？ Boy。Certainly，Socrates。 Soc。Whatdoyousayofhim，Meno？Werenotalltheseanswersgivenoutofhisownhead？ Men。Yes，theywereallhisown。 Soc。Andyet，aswewerejustnowsaying，hedidnotknow？ Men。True。 Soc。Butstillhehadinhimthosenotionsofhis—hadhenot？ Men。Yes。 Soc。Thenhewhodoesnotknowmaystillhavetruenotionsofthatwhichhedoesnotknow？ Men。Hehas。 Soc。Andatpresentthesenotionshavejustbeenstirredupinhim，asinadream；butifhewerefrequentlyaskedthesamequestions，indifferentforms，hewouldknowaswellasanyoneatlast？ Men。Idaresay。 Soc。Withoutanyoneteachinghimhewillrecoverhisknowledgeforhimself，ifheisonlyaskedquestions？ Men。Yes。 Soc。Andthisspontaneousrecoveryofknowledgeinhimisrecollection？ Men。True。 Soc。Andthisknowledgewhichhenowhasmusthenoteitherhaveacquiredoralwayspossessed？ Men。Yes。 Soc。Butifhealwayspossessedthisknowledgehewouldalwayshaveknown；orifhehasacquiredtheknowledgehecouldnothaveacquireditinthislife，unlesshehasbeentaughtgeometry；forhemaybemadetodothesamewithallgeometryandeveryotherbranchofknowledge。Now，hasanyoneevertaughthimallthis？Youmustknowabouthim，if，asyousay，hewasbornandbredinyourhouse。 Men。AndIamcertainthatnooneeverdidteachhim。 Soc。Andyethehastheknowledge？ Men。Thefact，Socrates，isundeniable。 Soc。Butifhedidnotacquiretheknowledgeinthislife，thenhemusthavehadandlearneditatsomeothertime？ Men。Clearlyhemust。 Soc。Whichmusthavebeenthetimewhenhewasnotaman？ Men。Yes。 Soc。Andiftherehavebeenalwaystruethoughtsinhim，bothatthetimewhenhewasandwasnotaman，whichonlyneedtobeawakenedintoknowledgebyputtingquestionstohim，hissoulmusthavealwayspossessedthisknowledge，forhealwayseitherwasorwasnotaman？ Men。Obviously。 Soc。Andifthetruthofallthingsalwaysexistedinthesoul，thenthesoulisimmortal。Whereforebeofgoodcheer，andtrytorecollectwhatyoudonotknow，orratherwhatyoudonotremember。 Men。Ifeel，somehow，thatIlikewhatyouaresaying。 Soc。AndI，Meno，likewhatIamsaying。SomethingsIhavesaidofwhichIamnotaltogetherconfident。Butthatweshallbebetterandbraverandlesshelplessifwethinkthatweoughttoenquire，thanweshouldhavebeenifweindulgedintheidlefancythattherewasnoknowingandnouseinseekingtoknowwhatwedonotknow；—thatisathemeuponwhichIamreadytofight，inwordanddeed，totheutmostofmypower。 Men。Thereagain，Socrates，yourwordsseemtomeexcellent。 Soc。Then，asweareagreedthatamanshouldenquireaboutthatwhichhedoesnotknow，shallyouandImakeanefforttoenquiretogetherintothenatureofvirtue？ Men。Byallmeans，Socrates。AndyetIwouldmuchratherreturntomyoriginalquestion，Whetherinseekingtoacquirevirtueweshouldregarditasathingtobetaught，orasagiftofnature，orascomingtomeninsomeotherway？ Soc。HadIthecommandofyouaswellasofmyself，Meno，Iwouldnothaveenquiredwhethervirtueisgivenbyinstructionornot，untilwehadfirstascertained\"whatitis。\"Butasyouthinkonlyofcontrollingmewhoamyourslave，andneverofcontrollingyourself，—suchbeingyournotionoffreedom，Imustyieldtoyou，foryouareirresistible。AndthereforeIhavenowtoenquireintothequalitiesofathingofwhichIdonotasyetknowthenature。Atanyrate，willyoucondescendalittle，andallowthequestion\"Whethervirtueisgivenbyinstruction，orinanyotherway，\"tobeargueduponhypothesis？Asthegeometrician，whenheisaskedwhetheracertaintriangleiscapablebeinginscribedinacertaincircle，willreply：\"Icannottellyouasyet；butIwillofferahypothesiswhichmayassistusinformingaconclusion：Ifthefigurebesuchthatwhenyouhaveproducedagivensideofit，thegivenareaofthetrianglefallsshortbyanareacorrespondingtothepartproduced，thenoneconsequencefollows，andifthisisimpossiblethensomeother；andthereforeIwishtoassumeahypothesisbeforeItellyouwhetherthistriangleiscapableofbeinginscribedinthecircle\"：—thatisageometricalhypothesis。Andwetoo，asweknownotthenatureand—qualitiesofvirtue，mustask，whethervirtueisornottaught，underahypothesis：asthus，ifvirtueisofsuchaclassofmentalgoods，willitbetaughtornot？Letthefirsthypothesisbe—thatvirtueisorisnotknowledge，—inthatcasewillitbetaughtornot？or，aswewerejustnowsaying，remembered\"？Forthereisnouseindisputingaboutthename。Butisvirtuetaughtornot？orrather，doesnoteveryoneseethatknowledgealoneistaught？ Men。Iagree。 Soc。Thenifvirtueisknowledge，virtuewillbetaught？ Men。Certainly。 Soc。Thennowwehavemadeaquickendofthisquestion：ifvirtueisofsuchanature，itwillbetaught；andifnot，not？ Men。Certainly。 Soc。Thenextquestionis，whethervirtueisknowledgeorofanotherspecies？ Men。Yes，thatappearstobethe—questionwhichcomesnextinorder。 Soc。Dowenotsaythatvirtueisagood？—Thisisahypothesiswhichisnotsetaside。 Men。Certainly。 Soc。Now，iftherebeanysort—ofgoodwhichisdistinctfromknowledge，virtuemaybethatgood；butifknowledgeembracesallgood，thenweshallberightinthinkinthatvirtueisknowledge？ Men。True。 Soc。Andvirtuemakesusgood？ Men。Yes。 Soc。Andifwearegood，thenweareprofitable；forallgoodthingsareprofitable？ Men。Yes。 Soc。Thenvirtueisprofitable？ Men。Thatistheonlyinference。 Soc。Thennowletusseewhatarethethingswhichseverallyprofitus。Healthandstrength，andbeautyandwealth—these，andthelikeofthese，wecallprofitable？ Men。True。 Soc。Andyetthesethingsmayalsosometimesdousharm：wouldyounotthinkso？ Men。Yes。 Soc。Andwhatistheguidingprinciplewhichmakesthemprofitableorthereverse？Aretheynotprofitablewhentheyarerightlyused，andhurtfulwhentheyarenotrightlyused？ Men。Certainly。 Soc。Next，letusconsiderthegoodsofthesoul：theyaretemperance，justice，courage，quicknessofapprehension，memory，magnanimity，andthelike？ Men。Surely。 Soc。Andsuchoftheseasarenotknowledge，butofanothersort，aresometimesprofitableandsometimeshurtful；as，forexample，couragewantingprudence，whichisonlyasortofconfidence？Whenamanhasnosenseheisharmedbycourage，butwhenhehassenseheisprofited？ Men。True。 Soc。Andthesamemaybesaidoftemperanceandquicknessofapprehension；whateverthingsarelearnedordonewithsenseareprofitable，butwhendonewithoutsensetheyarehurtful？ Men。Verytrue。 Soc。Andingeneral，allthattheattemptsorendures，whenundertheguidanceofwisdom，endsinhappiness；butwhensheisundertheguidanceoffolly，intheopposite？ Men。Thatappearstobetrue。 Soc。Ifthenvirtueisaqualityofthesoul，andisadmittedtobeprofitable，itmustbewisdomorprudence，sincenoneofthethingsofthesoulareeitherprofitableorhurtfulinthemselves，buttheyareallmadeprofitableorhurtfulbytheadditionofwisdomoroffolly；andthereforeandthereforeifvirtueisprofitable，virtuemustbeasortofwisdomorprudence？ Men。Iquiteagree。 Soc。Andtheothergoods，suchaswealthandthelike，ofwhichwewerejustnowsayingthattheyaresometimesgoodandsometimesevil，donottheyalsobecomeprofitableorhurtful，accordinglyasthesoulguidesandusesthemrightlyorwrongly；justasthethingsofthesoulherselfarebenefitedwhenundertheguidanceofwisdomandharmedbyfolly？ Men。True。 Soc。Andthewisesoulguidesthemrightly，andthefoolishsoulwrongly。 Men。Yes。 Soc。Andisnotthisuniversallytrueofhumannature？Allotherthingshanguponthesoul，andthethingsofthesoulherselfhanguponwisdom，iftheyaretobegood；andsowisdomisinferredtobethatwhichprofits—andvirtue，aswesay，isprofitable？ Men。Certainly。 Soc。Andthuswearriveattheconclusionthatvirtueiseitherwhollyorpartlywisdom？ Men。Ithinkthatwhatyouaresaying，Socrates，isverytrue。 Soc。Butifthisistrue，thenthegoodarenotbynaturegood？ Men。Ithinknot。 Soc。Iftheyhadbeen，therewouldassuredlyhavebeendiscernersofcharactersamonguswhowouldhaveknownourfuturegreatmen；andontheirshowingweshouldhaveadoptedthem，andwhenwehadgotthem，weshouldhavekepttheminthecitadeloutofthewayofharm，andsetastampuponthemfarratherthanuponapieceofgold，inorderthatnoonemighttamperwiththem；andwhentheygrewuptheywouldhavebeenusefultothestate？ Men。Yes，Socrates，thatwouldhavebeentherightway。 Soc。Butifthegoodarenotbynaturegood，aretheymadegoodbyinstruction？ Men。Thereappearstobenootheralternative，Socrates。Onthesuppositionthatvirtueisknowledge，therecanbenodoubtthatvirtueistaught。 Soc。Yes，indeed；butwhatifthesuppositioniserroneous？ Men。Icertainlythoughtjustnowthatwewereright。 Soc。Yes，Meno；butaprinciplewhichhasanysoundnessshouldstandfirmnotonlyjustnow，butalways。 Men。Well；andwhyareyousoslowofhearttobelievethatknowledgeisvirtue？ Soc。Iwilltryandtellyouwhy，Meno。Idonotretracttheassertionthatifvirtueisknowledgeitmaybetaught；butIfearthatIhavesomereasonindoubtingwhethervirtueisknowledge：forconsidernow。andsaywhethervirtue，andnotonlyvirtuebutanythingthatistaught，mustnothaveteachersanddisciples？ Men。Surely。 Soc。Andconversely，maynottheartofwhichneitherteachersnordisciplesexistbeassumedtobeincapableofbeingtaught？ Men。True；butdoyouthinkthattherearenoteachersofvirtue？ Soc。Ihavecertainlyoftenenquiredwhethertherewereany，andtakengreatpainstofindthem，andhaveneversucceeded；andmanyhaveassistedmeinthesearch，andtheywerethepersonswhomI thoughtthemostlikelytoknow。HereatthemomentwhenheiswantedwefortunatelyhavesittingbyusAnytus，theverypersonofwhomweshouldmakeenquiry；tohimthenletusrepair。InthefirstPlace，heisthesonofawealthyandwisefather，Anthemion，whoacquiredhiswealth，notbyaccidentorgift，likeIsmeniastheTheban（whohasrecentlymadehimselfasrichasPolycrates），butbyhisownskillandindustry，andwhoisawell—conditioned，modestman，notinsolent，orover—bearing，orannoying；moreover，thissonofhishasreceivedagoodeducation，astheAthenianpeoplecertainlyappeartothink，fortheychoosehimtofillthehighestoffices。Andthesearethesortofmenfromwhomyouarelikelytolearnwhetherthereareanyteachersofvirtue，andwhotheyare。Please，Anytus，tohelpmeandyourfriendMenoinansweringourquestion，Whoaretheteachers？Considerthematterthus：IfwewantedMenotobeagoodphysician，towhomshouldwesendhim？Shouldwenotsendhimtothephysicians？ Any。Certainly。 Soc。Orifwewantedhimtobeagoodcobbler，shouldwenotsendhimtothecobblers？ Any。Yes。 Soc。Andsoforth？ Any。Yes。 Soc。Letmetroubleyouwithonemorequestion。Whenwesaythatweshouldberightinsendinghimtothephysiciansifwewantedhimtobeaphysician，dowemeanthatweshouldberightinsendinghimtothosewhoprofesstheart，ratherthantothosewhodonot，andtothosewhodemandpaymentforteachingtheart，andprofesstoteachittoanyonewhowillcomeandlearn？Andifthesewereourreasons，shouldwenotberightinsendinghim？ Any。Yes。 Soc。Andmightnotthesamebesaidofflute—playing，andoftheotherarts？Wouldamanwhowantedtomakeanotheraflute—playerrefusetosendhimtothosewhoprofesstoteachtheartformoney，andbeplaguingotherpersonstogivehiminstruction，whoarenotprofessedteachersandwhoneverhadasinglediscipleinthatbranchofknowledgewhichhewisheshimtoacquire—wouldnotsuchconductbetheheightoffolly？ Any。Yes，byZeus，andofignorancetoo。 Soc。Verygood。AndnowyouareinapositiontoadvisewithmeaboutmyfriendMeno。Hehasbeentellingme，Anytus，thathedesirestoattainthatkindofwisdomand—virtuebywhichmenorderthestateorthehouse，andhonourtheirparents，andknowwhentoreceiveandwhentosendawaycitizensandstrangers，asagoodmanshould。Now，towhomshouldhegoinorderthathemaylearnthisvirtue？DoesnotthepreviousargumentimplyclearlythatweshouldsendhimtothosewhoprofessandavouchthattheyarethecommonteachersofallHellas，andarereadytoimpartinstructiontoanyonewholikes，atafixedprice？ Any。Whomdoyoumean，Socrates？ Soc。Yousurelyknow，doyounot，Anytus，thatthesearethepeoplewhommankindcallSophists？ Any。ByHeracles，Socrates，forbear！Ionlyhopethatnofriendorkinsmanoracquaintanceofmine，whethercitizenorstranger，willeverbesomadastoallowhimselftobecorruptedbythem；fortheyareamanifestpestandcorruptinginfluencestothosewhohavetodowiththem。 Soc。What，Anytus？Ofallthepeoplewhoprofessthattheyknowhowtodomengood，doyoumeantosaythatthesearetheonlyoneswhonotonlydothemnogood，butpositivelycorruptthosewhoareentrustedtothem，andinreturnforthisdisservicehavethefacetodemandmoney？Indeed，Icannotbelieveyou；forIknowofasingleman，Protagoras，whomademoreoutofhiscraftthantheillustriousPheidias，whocreatedsuchnobleworks，oranytenotherstatuaries。HowcouldthatAmenderofoldshoes，orpatcherupofclothes，whomadetheshoesorclothesworsethanhereceivedthem，couldnothaveremainedthirtydaysundetected，andwouldverysoonhavestarved；whereasduringmorethanfortyyears，ProtagoraswascorruptingallHellas，andsendinghisdisciplesfromhimworsethanhereceivedthem，andhewasneverfoundout。For，ifIamnotmistaken，—hewasaboutseventyyearsoldathisdeath，fortyofwhichwerespentinthepracticeofhisprofession；andduringallthattimehehadagoodreputation，whichtothisdayheretains： andnotonlyProtagoras，butmanyothersarewellspokenof；somewholivedbeforehim，andotherswhoarestillliving。Now，whenyousaythattheydeceivedandcorruptedtheyouth，aretheytobesupposedtohavecorruptedthemconsciouslyorunconsciously？CanthosewhoweredeemedbymanytobethewisestmenofHellashavebeenoutoftheirminds？ Any。Outoftheirminds！No，Socrates；theyoungmenwhogavetheirmoneytothem，wereoutoftheirminds，andtheirrelationsandguardianswhoentrustedtheiryouthtothecareofthesemenwerestillmoreoutoftheirminds，andmostofall，thecitieswhoallowedthemtocomein，anddidnotdrivethemout，citizenandstrangeralike。 Soc。HasanyoftheSophistswrongedyou，Anytus？Whatmakesyousoangrywiththem？ Any。No，indeed，neitherInoranyofmybelongingshaseverhad，norwouldIsufferthemtohave，anythingtodowiththem。 Soc。Thenyouareentirelyunacquaintedwiththem？ Any。AndIhavenowishtobeacquainted。 Soc。Then，mydearfriend，howcanyouknowwhetherathingisgoodorbadofwhichyouarewhollyignorant？ Any。Quitewell；IamsurethatIknowwhatmannerofmentheseare，whetherIamacquaintedwiththemornot。 Soc。Youmustbeadiviner，Anytus，forIreallycannotmakeout，judgingfromyourownwords，how，ifyouarenotacquaintedwiththem，youknowaboutthem。ButIamnotenquiringofyouwhoaretheteacherswhowillcorruptMeno（letthembe，ifyouplease，theSophists）；IonlyaskyoutotellhimwhothereisinthisgreatcitywhowillteachhimhowtobecomeeminentinthevirtueswhichI wasjust，nowdescribing。Heisthefriendofyourfamily，andyouwillobligehim。 Any。Whydoyounottellhimyourself？ Soc。IhavetoldhimwhomIsupposedtobetheteachersofthesethings；butIlearnfromyouthatIamutterlyatfault，andIdaresaythatyouareright。AndnowIwishthatyou，onyourpart，wouldtellmetowhomamongtheAtheniansheshouldgo。Whomwouldyouname？ Any。Whysingleoutindividuals？AnyAtheniangentleman，takenatrandom，ifhewillmindhim，willdofarmore，goodtohimthantheSophists。 Soc。Anddidthosegentlemengrowofthemselves；andwithouthavingbeentaughtbyanyone，weretheyneverthelessabletoteachothersthatwhichtheyhadneverlearnedthemselves？ Any。Iimaginethattheylearnedofthepreviousgenerationofgentlemen。Havetherenotbeenmanygoodmeninthiscity？ Soc。Yes，certainly，Anytus；andmanygoodstatesmenalsotherealwayshavebeenandtherearestill，inthecityofAthens。Butthequestioniswhethertheywerealsogoodteachersoftheirownvirtue；—notwhetherthereare，orhavebeen，goodmeninthispartoftheworld，butwhethervirtuecanbetaught，isthequestionwhichwehavebeendiscussing。Now，dowemeantosaythatthegoodmenourownandofothertimesknewhowtoimparttoothersthatvirtuewhichtheyhadthemselves；orisvirtueathingincapableofbeingcommunicatedorimpartedbyonemantoanother？ThatisthequestionwhichIandMenohavebeenarguing。Lookatthematterinyourownway：WouldyounotadmitthatThemistocleswasagoodman？ Any。Certainly；nomanbetter。 Soc。Andmustnothethenhavebeenagoodteacher，ifanymaneverwasagoodteacher，ofhisownvirtue？ Any。Yescertainly，—ifhewantedtobeso。 Soc。Butwouldhenothavewanted？Hewould，atanyrate，havedesiredtomakehisownsonagoodmanandagentleman；hecouldnothavebeenjealousofhim，orhaveintentionallyabstainedfromimpartingtohimhisownvirtue。DidyouneverhearthathemadehissonCleophantusafamoushorseman；andhadhimtaughttostanduprightonhorsebackandhurlajavelin，andtodomanyothermarvellousthings；andinanythingwhichcouldbelearnedfromamasterhewaswelltrained？Haveyounotheardfromoureldersofhim？ Any。Ihave。 Soc。Thennoonecouldsaythathissonshowedanywantofcapacity？ Any。Verylikelynot。 Soc。Butdidanyone，oldoryoung，eversayinyourhearingthatCleophantus，sonofThemistocles，wasawiseorgoodman，ashisfatherwas？ Any。Ihavecertainlyneverheardanyonesayso。 Soc。Andifvirtuecouldhavebeentaught，wouldhisfatherThemistocleshavesoughttotrainhimintheseminoraccomplishments，andallowedhimwho，asyoumustremember，washisownson，tobenobetterthanhisneighboursinthosequalitiesinwhichhehimselfexcelled？ Any。Indeed，indeed，Ithinknot。 Soc。Herewasateacherofvirtuewhomyouadmittobeamongthebestmenofthepast。Letustakeanother，—Aristides，thesonofLysimachus：wouldyounotacknowledgethathewasagoodman？ Any。TobesureIshould。 Soc。AnddidnothetrainhissonLysimachusbetterthananyotherAthenianinallthatcouldbedoneforhimbythehelpofmasters？Butwhathasbeentheresult？Isheabitbetterthananyothermortal？Heisanacquaintanceofyours，andyouseewhatheislike。ThereisPericles，again，magnificentinhiswisdom；andhe，asyouareaware，hadtwosons，ParalusandXanthippus。 Any。Iknow。 Soc。Andyouknow，also，thathetaughtthemtobeunrivalledhorsemen，andhadthemtrainedinmusicandgymnasticsandallsortsofarts—intheserespectstheywereonalevelwiththebest—andhadhenowishtomakegoodmenofthem？Nay，hemusthavewishedit。 Butvirtue，asIsuspect，couldnotbetaught。AndthatyoumaynotsupposetheincompetentteacherstobeonlythemeanersortofAtheniansandfewinnumber，rememberagainthatThucydideshadtwosons，MelesiasandStephanus，whom，besidesgivingthemagoodeducationinotherthings，hetrainedinwrestling，andtheywerethebestwrestlersinAthens：oneofthemhecommittedtothecareofXanthias，andtheotherofEudorus，whohadthereputationofbeingthemostcelebratedwrestlersofthatday。Doyourememberthem？ Any。Ihaveheardofthem。 Soc。Now，cantherebeadoubtthatThucydides，whosechildrenweretaughtthingsforwhichhehadtospendmoney，wouldhavetaughtthemtobegoodmen，whichwouldhavecosthimnothing，ifvirtuecouldhavebeentaught？Willyoureplythathewasameanman，andhadnotmanyfriendsamongtheAtheniansandallies？Nay，buthewasofagreatfamily，andamanofinfluenceatAthensandinallHellas，and，ifvirtuecouldhavebeentaught，hewouldhavefoundoutsomeAthenianorforeignerwhowouldhavemadegoodmenofhissons，ifhecouldnothimselfsparethetimefromcaresofstate。Oncemore，Isuspect，friendAnytus，thatvirtueisnotathingwhichcanbetaught？ Any。Socrates，Ithinkthatyouaretooreadytospeakevilofmen：and，ifyouwilltakemyadvice，Iwouldrecommendyoutobecareful。Perhapsthereisnocityinwhichitisnoteasiertodomenharmthantodothemgood，andthisiscertainlythecaseatAthens，asIbelievethatyouknow。 Soc。OMeno，thinkthatAnytusisinarage。Andhemaywellbeinarage，forhethinks，inthefirstplace，thatIamdefamingthesegentlemen；andinthesecondplace，heisofopinionthatheisoneofthemhimself。Butsomedayhewillknowwhatisthemeaningofdefamation，andifheeverdoes，hewillforgiveme。MeanwhileI willreturntoyou，Meno；forIsupposethattherearegentlemeninyourregiontoo？ Men。Certainlythereare。 Soc。Andaretheywillingtoteachtheyoung？anddotheyprofesstobeteachers？anddotheyagreethatvirtueistaught？ Men。Noindeed，Socrates，theyareanythingbutagreed；youmayhearthemsayingatonetimethatvirtuecanbetaught，andthenagainthereverse。 Soc。Canwecallthoseteacherswhodonotacknowledgethepossibilityoftheirownvocation？ Men。Ithinknot，Socrates。 Soc。AndwhatdoyouthinkoftheseSophists，whoaretheonlyprofessors？Dotheyseemtoyoutobeteachersofvirtue？ Men。Ioftenwonder，Socrates，thatGorgiasisneverheardpromisingtoteachvirtue：andwhenhehearsotherspromisingheonlylaughsatthem；buthethinksthatmenshouldbetaughttospeak。 Soc。ThendoyounotthinkthattheSophistsareteachers？ Men。Icannottellyou，Socrates；liketherestoftheworld，Iamindoubt，andsometimesIthinkthattheyareteachersandsometimesnot。 Soc。Andareyouawarethatnotyouonlyandotherpoliticianshavedoubtswhethervirtuecanbetaughtornot，butthatTheognisthepoetsaystheverysamething？ Men。Wheredoeshesayso？ Soc。Intheseelegiacverses： Eatanddrinkandsitwiththemighty，andmakeyourselfagreeabletothem；forfromthegoodyouwilllearnwhatisgood，butifyoumixwiththebadyouwilllosetheintelligencewhichyoualreadyhave。 Doyouobservethathereheseemstoimplythatvirtuecanbetaught？ Men。Clearly。 Soc。Butinsomeotherversesheshiftsaboutandsays： Ifunderstandingcouldbecreatedandputintoaman，thenthey[whowereabletoperformthisfeat]wouldhaveobtainedgreatrewards。 Andagain：— Neverwouldabadsonhavesprungfromagoodsire，forhewouldhaveheardthevoiceofinstruction；butnotbyteachingwillyouevermakeabadmanintoagoodone。 Andthis，asyoumayremark，isacontradictionoftheother。 Men。Clearly。 Soc。Andisthereanythingelseofwhichtheprofessorsareaffirmednotonlynottobeteachersofothers，buttobeignorantthemselves，andbadattheknowledgeofthatwhichtheyareprofessingtoteach？oristhereanythingaboutwhicheventheacknowledged\"gentlemen\"aresometimessayingthat\"thisthingcanbetaught，\" andsometimestheopposite？Canyousaythattheyareteachersinanytruesensewhoseideasareinsuchconfusion？ Men。Ishouldsay，certainlynot。 Soc。ButifneithertheSophistsnorthegentlemenareteachers，clearlytherecanbenootherteachers？ Men。No。 Soc。Andiftherearenoteachers，neitheraretheredisciples？ Men。Agreed。 Soc。Andwehaveadmittedthatathingcannotbetaughtofwhichthereareneitherteachersnordisciples？ Men。Wehave。 Soc。Andtherearenoteachersofvirtuetobefoundanywhere？ Men。Therearenot。 Soc。Andiftherearenoteachers，neitheraretherescholars？ Men。That，Ithink，istrue。 Soc。Thenvirtuecannotbetaught？ Men。Notifwearerightinourview。ButIcannotbelieve，Socrates，thattherearenogoodmen：Andifthereare，howdidtheycomeintoexistence？ Soc。Iamafraid，Meno，thatyouandIarenotgoodformuch，andthatGorgiashasbeenaspooraneducatorofyouasProdicushasbeenofme。Certainlyweshallhavetolooktoourselves，andtrytofindsomeonewhowillhelpinsomewayorothertoimproveus。ThisI say，becauseIobservethatinthepreviousdiscussionnoneofusremarkedthatrightandgoodactionispossibletomanunderotherguidancethanthatofknowledge（episteme）；—andindeedifthisbedenied，thereisnoseeinghowtherecanbeanygoodmenatall。 Men。Howdoyoumean，Socrates？ Soc。Imeanthatgoodmenarenecessarilyusefulorprofitable。Werewenotrightinadmittingthis？Itmustbeso。 Men。Yes。 Soc。Andinsupposingthattheywillbeusefulonlyiftheyaretrueguidestousofaction—therewewerealsoright？ Men。Yes。 Soc。Butwhenwesaidthatamancannotbeagoodguideunlesshehaveknowledge（phrhonesis），thiswewerewrong。 Men。Whatdoyoumeanbytheword\"right\"？ Soc。Iwillexplain。IfamanknewthewaytoLarisa，oranywhereelse，andwenttotheplaceandledothersthither，wouldhenotbearightandgoodguide？ Men。Certainly。 Soc。Andapersonwhohadarightopinionabouttheway，buthadneverbeenanddidnotknow，mightbeagoodguidealso，mighthenot？ Men。Certainly。 Soc。Andwhilehehastrueopinionaboutthatwhichtheotherknows，hewillbejustasgoodaguideifhethinksthetruth，ashewhoknowsthetruth？ Men。Exactly。 Soc。Thentrueopinionisasgoodaguidetocorrectactionasknowledge；andthatwasthepointwhichweomittedinourspeculationaboutthenatureofvirtue，whenwesaidthatknowledgeonlyistheguideofrightaction；whereasthereisalsorightopinion。 Men。True。 Soc。Thenrightopinionisnotlessusefulthanknowledge？ Men。Thedifference，Socrates，isonlythathewhohasknowledgewillalwaysberight；buthewhohasrightopinionwillsometimesberight，andsometimesnot。 Soc。Whatdoyoumean？Canhebewrongwhohasrightopinion，solongashehasrightopinion？ Men。Iadmitthecogencyofyourargument，andtherefore，Socrates，Iwonderthatknowledgeshouldbepreferredtorightopinion—orwhytheyshouldeverdiffer。 Soc。AndshallIexplainthiswondertoyou？ Men。Dotellme。 Soc。YouwouldnotwonderifyouhadeverobservedtheimagesofDaedalus；butperhapsyouhavenotgottheminyourcountry？ Men。Whathavetheytodowiththequestion？ Soc。Becausetheyrequiretobefastenedinordertokeepthem，andiftheyarenotfastenedtheywillplaytruantandrunaway。 Men。Well。whatofthat？ Soc。Imeantosaythattheyarenotveryvaluablepossessionsiftheyareatliberty，fortheywillwalkofflikerunawayslaves；butwhenfastened，theyareofgreatvalue，fortheyarereallybeautifulworksofart。Nowthisisanillustrationofthenatureoftrueopinions：whiletheyabidewithustheyarebeautifulandfruitful，buttheyrunawayoutofthehumansoul，anddonotremainlong，andthereforetheyarenotofmuchvalueuntiltheyarefastenedbythetieofthecause；andthisfasteningofthem，friendMeno，isrecollection，asyouandIhaveagreedtocallit。Butwhentheyarebound，inthefirstplace，theyhavethenatureofknowledge；and，inthesecondplace，theyareabiding。Andthisiswhyknowledgeismorehonourableandexcellentthantrueopinion，becausefastenedbyachain。 Men。Whatyouaresaying，Socrates，seemstobeverylikethetruth。 Soc。Itoospeakratherinignorance；Ionlyconjecture。Andyetthatknowledgediffersfromtrueopinionisnomatterofconjecturewithme。TherearenotmanythingswhichIprofesstoknow，butthisismostcertainlyoneofthem。 Men。Yes，Socrates；andyouarequiterightinsayingso。 Soc。AndamInotalsorightinsayingthattrueopinionleadingthewayperfectsactionquiteaswellasknowledge？ Men。Thereagain，Socrates，Ithinkyouareright。 Soc。Thenrightopinionisnotawhitinferiortoknowledge，orlessusefulinaction；noristhemanwhohasrightopinioninferiortohimwhohasknowledge？ Men。True。 Soc。Andsurelythegoodmanhasbeenacknowledgedbyustobeuseful？ Men。Yes。 Soc。Seeingthenthatmenbecomegoodandusefultostates，notonlybecausetheyhaveknowledge，butbecausetheyhaverightopinion，andthatneitherknowledgenorrightopinionisgiventomanbynatureoracquiredbyhim—（doyouimagineeitherofthemtobegivenbynature？ Men。NotI。） Soc。Theniftheyarenotgivenbynature，neitherarethegoodbynaturegood？ Men。Certainlynot。 Soc。Andnaturebeingexcluded，thencamethequestionwhethervirtueisacquiredbyteaching？ Men。Yes。 Soc。Ifvirtuewaswisdom[orknowledge]，then，aswethought，itwastaught？ Men。Yes。 Soc。Andifitwastaughtitwaswisdom？ Men。Certainly。 Soc。Andiftherewereteachers，itmightbetaught；andiftherewerenoteachers，not？ Men。True。 Soc。Butsurelyweacknowledgedthattherewerenoteachersofvirtue？ Men。Yes。 Soc。Thenweacknowledgedthatitwasnottaught，andwasnotwisdom？ Men。Certainly。 Soc。Andyetweadmittedthatitwasagood？ Men。Yes。 Soc。Andtherightguideisusefulandgood？ Men。Certainly。 Soc。Andtheonlyrightguidesareknowledgeandtrueopinion—thesearetheguidesofman；forthingswhichhappenbychancearenotundertheguidanceofman：buttheguidesofmanaretrueopinionandknowledge。 Men。Ithinksotoo。 Soc。Butifvirtueisnottaught，neitherisvirtueknowledge。 Men。Clearlynot。 Soc。Thenoftwogoodandusefulthings，one，whichisknowledge，hasbeensetaside，andcannotbesupposedtobeourguideinpoliticallife。 Men。Ithinknot。 Soc。Andthereforenotbyanywisdom，andnotbecausetheywerewise，didThemistoclesandthoseothersofwhomAnytusspokegovernstates。Thiswasthereasonwhytheywereunabletomakeotherslikethemselves—becausetheirvirtuewasnotgroundedonknowledge。 Men。Thatisprobablytrue，Socrates。 Soc。Butifnotbyknowledge，theonlyalternativewhichremainsisthatstatesmenmusthaveguidedstatesbyrightopinion，whichisinpoliticswhatdivinationisinreligion；fordivinersandalsoprophetssaymanythingstruly，buttheyknownotwhattheysay。 Men。SoIbelieve。 Soc。Andmaywenot，Meno，trulycallthosemen\"divine\"who，havingnounderstanding，yetsucceedinmanyagranddeedandword？ Men。Certainly。 Soc。Thenweshallalsoberightincallingdivinethosewhomwewerejustnowspeakingofasdivinersandprophets，includingthewholetribeofpoets。Yes，andstatesmenaboveallmaybesaidtobedivineandillumined，beinginspiredandpossessedofGod，inwhichconditiontheysaymanygrandthings，notknowingwhattheysay。 Men。Yes。 Soc。Andthewomentoo，Meno，callgoodmendivine—dotheynot？ andtheSpartans，whentheypraiseagoodman，say\"thatheisadivineman。\" Men。AndIthink，Socrates，thattheyareright；althoughverylikelyourfriendAnytusmaytakeoffenceattheword。 Soc。Idanotcare；asforAnytus，therewillbeanotheropportunityoftalkingwithhim。Tosumupourenquiry—theresultseemstobe，ifweareatallrightinourview，thatvirtueisneithernaturalnoracquired，butaninstinctgivenbyGodtothevirtuous。Noristheinstinctaccompaniedbyreason，unlesstheremaybesupposedtobeamongstatesmensomeonewhoiscapableofeducatingstatesmen。Andiftherebesuchanone，hemaybesaidtobeamongthelivingwhatHomersaysthatTiresiaswasamongthedead，\"healonehasunderstanding； buttherestareflittingshades\"；andheandhisvirtueinlikemannerwillbearealityamongshadows。 Men。Thatisexcellent，Socrates。 Soc。Then，Meno，theconclusionisthatvirtuecomestothevirtuousbythegiftofGod。Butweshallneverknowthecertaintruthuntil，beforeaskinghowvirtueisgiven，weenquireintotheactualnatureofvirtue。IfearthatImustgoaway，butdoyou，nowthatyouarepersuadedyourself，persuadeourfriendAnytus。Anddonotlethimbesoexasperated；ifyoucanconciliatehim，youwillhavedonegoodservicetotheAthenianpeople。